Having been put on a plane from the Far East aged 9, when planes had propellors and it took 2 days, I can empathise. An Army family so thats what you did then. Tho my schools were not too bad, they certainly left me with a disrespect for a certain kind of authority, social snobbery and class, and abuse of unjustified power. Having seen a lot of the City of London (finance, law, accountancy) in my working life, I've seen that how carries through into politics and the economy with deeply damaging effects.
The school I went to has outrageous facilities compared to any state school and as fees have escalated, they are available to fewer and fewer people. The shift of wealth is not just from the poor to the rich, but has affected people who would think of themselves as middle class and would once have sent their children to modest private schools. Those schools no longer have a customer base that can afford them.
And insightful commentary, I can validate The bullying and bastardy of a catholic (Christian Brothers) boarding school in regional New South Wales, Australia in the late 1960s. It was straight out of Dickens -bleak & cold. The staff in hindsight were lonely damaged people. There were three Sydney boys including me amongst an enrolment of 400+ country Kids. The one advantage I had was coming from a rough area where I was regularly fighting & won most. I suppose I was a dirty bastard. Within a few weeks I had knocked over the various wannabes who were older & physically bigger than me and shaving etc. Anyway thanks again maaaate
Mine, to a lesser degree, was at a ‘Protestant’ establishment in Lancashire that still maintains its undeserved aloofness. Crosbeians, Old & new, were supposed to ‘bow the knee’ alike to prefects & the raft of ‘green’ or, worse, jaundiced & bitter long-serving masters. Infractions could be physically severe from the masters. No prefect was ever really taller than my increasing height, so none ever troubled me.
I vowed that no child of mine would attend it or its companion girls’ school & breathed a huge sigh of relief after 7 years’ of needless conformity 1958-65.
I remember you, and the nearly all the rest is a nightmare :-
1 - The "ferula" and AMDG at the top of the punishment slips and LDS at the bottom God be praised!
2 - The rounds and corporal punishment, i think i remember doing press up with you one Sunday morning
3 - The bullies, I think you punched one once, dont suppose he bothered you again. I do remember a bunch who were keen on Neil Diamond beating a lad so bad i think they had to call an ambulance.
4 - The bogs, and bog roll - or lack of it. My mother complained there was no toilet roll for us and he said some of the children just rolled it around the toilets!!
5 - Sneaks - you couldn't sneak, but it always seemed to be one way, you couldn't sneak on someone but other kids sneaked on you!
6 - CCF - God what a system, licenced bullying
7 - The food!! or lack of it.
8 - Having to get Exeats if you wanted to have Sundays out with your parents.
9 - I lived for the end of term and being collected by car and escape, I hated being brought back.
10 - I remember one lad and myself staying up after hours to watch Richie Havens in concert on TV just after people had raided the tuck shop and two of the teachers were watching the Tuck shop in a car, by heck did we get into trouble. Just for watching a concert.
11 - I remember getting chased down the stairs from the Rudiments/Grammar dorm and falling and breaking my leg.
Well that's enough horrors, There was a snooker table, I couldn't play before i went but at least i was introduced to the game and now I'm retired it's a hobby to keep me out of trouble.
The other thing, a bit of a coincidence really that news of the old school dying is that whilst I was there I was introduced to the Strawbs, a favourite band of yours at the time if i recall, Dave Cousins passed away a few weeks ago. Oddly the founder members were at a different St Mary's - a teacher training college in Strawberry Hill - . Strange.
Thanks for sharing those horrific memories Mk. I don't remember you from these initials, but everything you say rings horribly true. But breaking your leg? What year was that, and were there any consequences? I have to say it is absolutely great that you stayed up late to watch Richie Havens. And The Strawbs, yes, they were a favourite band of mine back then and I noticed Dave Cousins' passing. I hope the snooker table continues to keep you out of trouble!
Hi Matt, we must have overlapped at the Mount, though I was 2 years ahead of you and left Rhetoric in 1972. We may even have lapped one another doing ‘prefects rounds’ on a cold wet day in our PE kit in the morning break for some minor misdemeanour such as whispering to a friend walking down the long corridor for morning Mass! Like you, I cannot claim that the 5 years I spent at the Mount rank as a good period in my life, though Poetry and Rhetoric were more tolerable than the earlier years. But leaving the Mount and getting in to university was really the best thing that happened to me - I describe it as bringing colour back into my life! Today people find it hard to imagine when I describe dormitories of 60, mostly spent in silence, and with the silhouette of a patrolling Jesuit falling as a dark shadow across the foot of your bed. When I left, I really wanted nothing more to do with the place, and didn’t join the Old Mountaineers etc, so soon lost touch with the rest of my year. And, even if I had had the money, I certainly wouldn’t have entertained sending my children there! David Grech
Hi David. Thanks for sharing these memories. I don't remember your name, but given that you were 2 years ahead, that isn't surprising. I do remember sessions like the one you mention though. And the silent dorms and the 'silhouette of a patrolling Jesuit falling as a dark shadow.' You make it sound like a horror film, which in a way, it was. Anyway, I'm glad to hear your life improved afterwards. Best wishes, Matt
I was in the same class year as the author and I too recall the violence and bullying. I too was regularly thrashed by Jesuits and bullied by the 6th form captains. We also had a PE Teacher (who is still around) who used to make inappropriate comments on pupils' physiques and make us remove our trunks during PE and swim naked in the pool. There was no criminal check or filter on Jesuits or teachers in those days and, as Matt says, it was how things were and you had to get on with it.
I am amazed how quickly the school has collapsed, and I would take a great deal of persuading it is down to the VAT changes. A business turning over this kind of money backed by the huge assets of the Jesuits would not go into administration without some gross mismanagement or negligent (or criminal) handling of its budget. I suppose more will become evidence when the Liquidator files his report.
Am I sad? A little, but I left 50 years ago and times have changed (for the better). Looking back, I had some happy days at The Mount but that was only in the 6th form. The years running up to it were often miserable, bullying went unchecked and some of the teachers and Jesuits were creeps. I was not personally sexually assaulted either but it was a harsh, isolated regime and looking back, its legacy left me naïve and ill equipped to enter the 'real world'.
Education was also polarised eg I had never heard of Islam or Buddy Holly until after I left.
Hope life is good for you Matt. You were a clever bloke- the only one in our class to get a Grade 1 in English Lit o-level. You were also one of the hardest guys in our year, but then the system forced you to be so. All the best- Simon Catterall 0M 1966-74
Sorry you had to go through this, Simon, and thanks for sharing these memories. It does seem barely believable when you look back on it, doesn’t it? Funny, I never felt hard in those years, just intensely vulnerable, as no doubt you did too. I remember crying for days when I first arrived there, but God help you if you showed that kind of emotion and I quickly learned not to do it again. Glad
Trying to think who that PE teacher was. Anyway, glad you made it out intact, and that you have some happy memories of the place. Your observations about its closure are spot on. All best, Matt
I remember the first cracks I received were 4 for failing to remember a verse of the Rime of the Ancient Mariner from fr Mc Ardle (woody) who commented at the time that I had an lazy stream and it was to be beaten out of me. Still it is true to say that the last 3 years were the best by then we could smoke and go to the Angel pub (or Boot makers arms)
Father McArdle! I remember his nicotine-stained fingers well. He pushed me to enter the elocution contest three times, to my annual embarrassment. I never got cracks for not remembering verses, though. AMDG right?
that said, I think the nuns (Notre Dame) were actually worst, I ended up with strips on my leg from the ruler - but was 7 or 8 then - I missed out Rudiments, and attended a Jesuit college in Belize (St Johns) the American J's had given up corporal punishment, by the time I retuned in Grammar I think they were easing back at the mount.
Has your "crude maths" resulted in a missing zero on the school's income calculation ? Heaven knows what the punishment was for such minor infractions back in the day !
Having been put on a plane from the Far East aged 9, when planes had propellors and it took 2 days, I can empathise. An Army family so thats what you did then. Tho my schools were not too bad, they certainly left me with a disrespect for a certain kind of authority, social snobbery and class, and abuse of unjustified power. Having seen a lot of the City of London (finance, law, accountancy) in my working life, I've seen that how carries through into politics and the economy with deeply damaging effects.
The school I went to has outrageous facilities compared to any state school and as fees have escalated, they are available to fewer and fewer people. The shift of wealth is not just from the poor to the rich, but has affected people who would think of themselves as middle class and would once have sent their children to modest private schools. Those schools no longer have a customer base that can afford them.
And yes, of course they should pay VAT
And insightful commentary, I can validate The bullying and bastardy of a catholic (Christian Brothers) boarding school in regional New South Wales, Australia in the late 1960s. It was straight out of Dickens -bleak & cold. The staff in hindsight were lonely damaged people. There were three Sydney boys including me amongst an enrolment of 400+ country Kids. The one advantage I had was coming from a rough area where I was regularly fighting & won most. I suppose I was a dirty bastard. Within a few weeks I had knocked over the various wannabes who were older & physically bigger than me and shaving etc. Anyway thanks again maaaate
Yes, I suspect that some of the MSM staff back then fit into the category you describe. Glad you survived it
Your torture as described totally unacceptable.
Mine, to a lesser degree, was at a ‘Protestant’ establishment in Lancashire that still maintains its undeserved aloofness. Crosbeians, Old & new, were supposed to ‘bow the knee’ alike to prefects & the raft of ‘green’ or, worse, jaundiced & bitter long-serving masters. Infractions could be physically severe from the masters. No prefect was ever really taller than my increasing height, so none ever troubled me.
I vowed that no child of mine would attend it or its companion girls’ school & breathed a huge sigh of relief after 7 years’ of needless conformity 1958-65.
I remember the Mount,
I remember you, and the nearly all the rest is a nightmare :-
1 - The "ferula" and AMDG at the top of the punishment slips and LDS at the bottom God be praised!
2 - The rounds and corporal punishment, i think i remember doing press up with you one Sunday morning
3 - The bullies, I think you punched one once, dont suppose he bothered you again. I do remember a bunch who were keen on Neil Diamond beating a lad so bad i think they had to call an ambulance.
4 - The bogs, and bog roll - or lack of it. My mother complained there was no toilet roll for us and he said some of the children just rolled it around the toilets!!
5 - Sneaks - you couldn't sneak, but it always seemed to be one way, you couldn't sneak on someone but other kids sneaked on you!
6 - CCF - God what a system, licenced bullying
7 - The food!! or lack of it.
8 - Having to get Exeats if you wanted to have Sundays out with your parents.
9 - I lived for the end of term and being collected by car and escape, I hated being brought back.
10 - I remember one lad and myself staying up after hours to watch Richie Havens in concert on TV just after people had raided the tuck shop and two of the teachers were watching the Tuck shop in a car, by heck did we get into trouble. Just for watching a concert.
11 - I remember getting chased down the stairs from the Rudiments/Grammar dorm and falling and breaking my leg.
Well that's enough horrors, There was a snooker table, I couldn't play before i went but at least i was introduced to the game and now I'm retired it's a hobby to keep me out of trouble.
The other thing, a bit of a coincidence really that news of the old school dying is that whilst I was there I was introduced to the Strawbs, a favourite band of yours at the time if i recall, Dave Cousins passed away a few weeks ago. Oddly the founder members were at a different St Mary's - a teacher training college in Strawberry Hill - . Strange.
.
Thanks for sharing those horrific memories Mk. I don't remember you from these initials, but everything you say rings horribly true. But breaking your leg? What year was that, and were there any consequences? I have to say it is absolutely great that you stayed up late to watch Richie Havens. And The Strawbs, yes, they were a favourite band of mine back then and I noticed Dave Cousins' passing. I hope the snooker table continues to keep you out of trouble!
It was when I was in Rudiments. No long term effects.
Hi Matt, we must have overlapped at the Mount, though I was 2 years ahead of you and left Rhetoric in 1972. We may even have lapped one another doing ‘prefects rounds’ on a cold wet day in our PE kit in the morning break for some minor misdemeanour such as whispering to a friend walking down the long corridor for morning Mass! Like you, I cannot claim that the 5 years I spent at the Mount rank as a good period in my life, though Poetry and Rhetoric were more tolerable than the earlier years. But leaving the Mount and getting in to university was really the best thing that happened to me - I describe it as bringing colour back into my life! Today people find it hard to imagine when I describe dormitories of 60, mostly spent in silence, and with the silhouette of a patrolling Jesuit falling as a dark shadow across the foot of your bed. When I left, I really wanted nothing more to do with the place, and didn’t join the Old Mountaineers etc, so soon lost touch with the rest of my year. And, even if I had had the money, I certainly wouldn’t have entertained sending my children there! David Grech
Hi David. Thanks for sharing these memories. I don't remember your name, but given that you were 2 years ahead, that isn't surprising. I do remember sessions like the one you mention though. And the silent dorms and the 'silhouette of a patrolling Jesuit falling as a dark shadow.' You make it sound like a horror film, which in a way, it was. Anyway, I'm glad to hear your life improved afterwards. Best wishes, Matt
I was in the same class year as the author and I too recall the violence and bullying. I too was regularly thrashed by Jesuits and bullied by the 6th form captains. We also had a PE Teacher (who is still around) who used to make inappropriate comments on pupils' physiques and make us remove our trunks during PE and swim naked in the pool. There was no criminal check or filter on Jesuits or teachers in those days and, as Matt says, it was how things were and you had to get on with it.
I am amazed how quickly the school has collapsed, and I would take a great deal of persuading it is down to the VAT changes. A business turning over this kind of money backed by the huge assets of the Jesuits would not go into administration without some gross mismanagement or negligent (or criminal) handling of its budget. I suppose more will become evidence when the Liquidator files his report.
Am I sad? A little, but I left 50 years ago and times have changed (for the better). Looking back, I had some happy days at The Mount but that was only in the 6th form. The years running up to it were often miserable, bullying went unchecked and some of the teachers and Jesuits were creeps. I was not personally sexually assaulted either but it was a harsh, isolated regime and looking back, its legacy left me naïve and ill equipped to enter the 'real world'.
Education was also polarised eg I had never heard of Islam or Buddy Holly until after I left.
Hope life is good for you Matt. You were a clever bloke- the only one in our class to get a Grade 1 in English Lit o-level. You were also one of the hardest guys in our year, but then the system forced you to be so. All the best- Simon Catterall 0M 1966-74
Sorry you had to go through this, Simon, and thanks for sharing these memories. It does seem barely believable when you look back on it, doesn’t it? Funny, I never felt hard in those years, just intensely vulnerable, as no doubt you did too. I remember crying for days when I first arrived there, but God help you if you showed that kind of emotion and I quickly learned not to do it again. Glad
Trying to think who that PE teacher was. Anyway, glad you made it out intact, and that you have some happy memories of the place. Your observations about its closure are spot on. All best, Matt
I remember the first cracks I received were 4 for failing to remember a verse of the Rime of the Ancient Mariner from fr Mc Ardle (woody) who commented at the time that I had an lazy stream and it was to be beaten out of me. Still it is true to say that the last 3 years were the best by then we could smoke and go to the Angel pub (or Boot makers arms)
Father McArdle! I remember his nicotine-stained fingers well. He pushed me to enter the elocution contest three times, to my annual embarrassment. I never got cracks for not remembering verses, though. AMDG right?
that said, I think the nuns (Notre Dame) were actually worst, I ended up with strips on my leg from the ruler - but was 7 or 8 then - I missed out Rudiments, and attended a Jesuit college in Belize (St Johns) the American J's had given up corporal punishment, by the time I retuned in Grammar I think they were easing back at the mount.
LDS
Has your "crude maths" resulted in a missing zero on the school's income calculation ? Heaven knows what the punishment was for such minor infractions back in the day !
Well spotted David! I did say they were crude, and that 0 is back where it should be. Luckily I made that mistake in the 21st century…